SPFPP 226: Do They Deserve Your Story?

Laureen (not HD) is a trauma therapist, bikini competitor, East coaster, and a human who has experienced excessive bullying for most of her life for various reasons. I wanna preface this episode by asking that you respect her bravery in making herself accessible to people by not making any comments about her physical appearance please. It was amazing that she offered us her story and the vulnerability that came with it. Now that’s out of the way . . .

As a Bikini Competitor, Laureen had what became realized as her first outbreak while on stage in a competition. There was a sense of denial with the initial symptoms which she went to the ER for not once or twice, but 3 times where she was treated for the common, curable STIs because they thought that was the cause of her discomfort/symptoms. She was able to focus on her show by just pushing this all down. She eventually received a diagnosis and meds to treat the symptoms and outbreak, but still sort of navigated the denial stage of grief.

Laureen (Not HD) was actually in a stage of denial until hopping on YouTube to find a content creator with her same name, who also happens to have herpes (Laureen HD) and it was something that became real to her. At this point, she decided to look for support and found Alexandra Harbushka’s Life with Herpes Group (Shoutout to her and her husband Bill). This was where she ended up making a really good friend as well. And she mentioned a comment from Alexandra’s husband at the retreat about how we, as people living with herpes are so concerned about receiving acceptance from a partner we disclose to, that we don’t even look at the more important things like what THEIR credit score is. This opens up the thought process of “oh yeah, I have herpes, but can you and I even get a house together?” and this created a shift for Laureen.

We also speak to how being a therapist didn’t initially help her process her diagnosis. Laureen speaks to how logically and emotionally, she had to have her experiences with the emotions. No one is immune to feeling their emotions or going through the feelings of the healing process. Once she stepped out of the denial phase, she became someone who was thriving in the acceptance she received from those around her. Family and friends were rather accepting which made her realize she was in fact stigmatizing herself. What these people gave her was a reminder of her identity pre-diagnosis. She shared this devastating, traumatic experience with people who did in fact validate her identity because they knew her as Laureen. We both were able to relate to seemingly living two separate lives, the one with those who know we have herpes, and then the one where people don’t know. Blending the two became a part of both our healing processes.

One thing to consider is whether or not to look at herpes as part of your identity or not. We talk shortly about this and there’s a few ways to look at this but this was something I’ve personally struggled with considering I now have my career interconnected with my diagnosis -_-. What I love about this is that Laureen doesn’t feel like she needs to hide her status nor does she need to publicly disclose. She shared with me that this podcast episode was part of her healing and challenging the stigma herself and that’s why she chose not to remain anonymous. There’s so many more things that matter in life for herself that this just shouldn’t be near as big of a deal as we make it.

We heal at our own pace. Please know this above all else. If you feel like it isn’t happening fast enough, then take note of your own avoidance tendencies and see where/how you can start to feel what doesn’t hurt so bad. Lean into that and then take it a step at a time. Some days are better than others. Know that. Just because you KNOW what you should do to heal, doesn’t mean you’re ready to take the actions and that’s okay! Just know that you’re going to feel so you can heal whether you want to or not. Just don’t resist when it comes up please.

You’ll hear this in the episode, but Laureen has competed in a dozen competitions. This requires discipline, sacrifice, being almost perfect on your schedule for nutrition and exercise. If you don’t place first, then you don’t win. All that time, energy and effort invested into a moment where you receive a rejection from first place doesn’t seem to have near as big of an impact on Laureen as her rejections from men for having herpes has been. I call attention to that and she explains in her own way why it’s different and thanked me for that question. I find it interesting how something with less investment can present a more impactful rejection to us than something we’ve put so much into. I can rationalize it, but it’ll be more useful to you if you ask that for yourself.

Laureen’s initial response is different than what I mostly hear from people. It was a matter of figuring out what was going on with her body, and then it was about accepting this diagnosis. When I hear from people, their initial responses are often “How do I disclose this to a partner?” or “Who is gonna want to have sex with me now?”. I wondered if her attractiveness contributed to her not being concerned with how to date as someone who has herpes. She mentioned that dating was NOT her priority at that time. AND her dating experience has looked different than mainstream dating does now. Think small town style where you’re hanging out with someone then look up and BAM you’re dating. So not only is dating post-diagnosis new from the perspective of how it’s changed, but now it’s also dating with HSV. Laureen’s story brings us to the fact that rejection is rejection despite how good you look, or who on the other end is rejecting. Options and availability don’t alleviate the impact of rejection.

I owe someone an apology for being a sex therapist who completed therapy and wasn’t ok sharing that useful testimony on a podcast because of stigma. This podcast helped me see that. I was testimony hungry as that’s what this non profit/podcast has for promotion to sell donors on what their support contributes, but stigma is so prevalent, I have to just accept that I won’t always be able to get support with these stories. It’s okay, I’ll get creative :D.

You can connect with Laureen on Instagram: @__Laureeen (2 underscores, 3 e’s) and be on the lookout for her podcast, Seasons of Rambling, and her therapy practice is Seasons of Strength.

Transcription:

Something Positive for Positive People Episode 226: Do They Deserve Your Story? April 15, 2022 

Courtney: Welcome to Something Positive for Positive People. I'm Courtney Brame. Something Positive for Positive People is a 501c3 non-profit organization connecting people who are navigating herpes stigma to support resources such as therapy, community, support groups, and also just information that supports them with navigating a diagnosis or disclosure. Today's guest is Laureen, not Laureen HD, I'm sorry if that's what you were expecting when you saw Laureen, but I promise you that this is still going to be a great episode. We did interview Laureen HD before, if you want you can scroll through the episodes and go back to that title if you'd like to. Laureen, let us go ahead and I'll let you introduce yourself and then just start with how you found and connected to me. 

Laureen: Like you said my name is Laureen. It's very funny that you mention Laureen HD because when I first was diagnosed I was looking stuff up and then I stopped because I was like, "I don't have H S V, no I don't." And then YouTube had suggested her, Laureen HD, and I'm like, "She has my name and I don't know anyone with my name and she has herpes. I can't run from this anymore." And then I found a support group, I'm not sure if people have come across it, Life with Herpes? [with] Alexandra Harbushka and she kind of gave me a list of different podcasts and things to listen to because I was all out of sorts and I came across you, I followed you. I followed your personal page [inaudible] on your Instagram for the [inaudible] and I think you put two and two together for everyone I follow and that's kind of how we met. 

Courtney: Yeah, that happens all the time. When people google Courtney I think that Instagram shows up first. I don't know why, it's way smaller and...I guess it's more fun because I post random [chuckles] humorous things that I find funny on there. So you mentioned, "I don't have herpes", and then BAM, Laureen [HD and] herpes were both thrown into your face. Let's talk about that there. When were you diagnosed, how were you diagnosed, and what led to this denial [chuckles] stage that you were in? 

Laureen: Well, I got out of a long-term, years and years-long relationship. I was living with my significant other and it was going very well, I just wasn't in love anymore and I found myself single for the first time in what seemed like forever. I start dating--to this day the person [I was dating] says they never had herpes, which I think's crap. In the long run, what had happened was, I'm a bikini competitor and I was having issues for, like, a week but we do some water cuts with being a female, your ph balance sometimes has issues. I was not thinking that I had herpes. I was like, "There's no way I have it." It was totally off the table. I went to three doctors, or three ERs, they did nothing. They told me that I was fine, that it was an S T D, but not what it was or how to treat it, nothing. The night of my show was when I ended up in the hospital from it. So during my first outbreak, I was actually on stage competing. And I ended up with flu-like symptoms, a 104 fever and it was wild. And then when I found out about it I was like, "I have a show in four weeks, I don't have herpes, I can't focus on that stress, I've got to keep going." I was almost having P T S D symptoms leading into my second show because the week of is when I had my outbreak so the week of I was freaking out thinking it's going to happen again and then I thought, after this show, I need to start actually looking into it because I experienced P T S D and I'm now a trauma therapist and I'm like, "OK this is not good." I started doing some google searches and came across Life with Herpes and [inaudible] a friend to going to the retreat a couple of weeks later because I went from, "I don't have it", to "What am I doing? Why am I stigmatizing this? I need to figure it out." 

Courtney: Yeah. Did you treat yourself at all--[chuckles] treat yourself--we have really modified how that sentence comes out through Parks--not Parks and Rec, ohhh...Parks and Rec? Maybe it's Parks and Rec, I be mixing up the shows. The Office, Parks and Rec, they're all the same to me. But yeah, like "Treat Yo Self", I mean did you treat your symptoms? [laughs] 

Laureen: I was put on--I don't know if you know much about antibiotics--they put me on doxycycline and Flagyl, all these crazy antibiotics, and my P C P was like, that's not it. She is the one that said it was herpes and then she--after like six days into my first outbreak--so if anyone's that's had it...every minute feels like a year. I finally was given the Valtrex or the generic, I'm not sure which one and I was on maybe a five-day regimen. I got better but she was like, "You don't really need to do anything if you have an outbreak." And I'm like, "If I have an outbreak again, if I have an outbreak like this ever again, [if] I am not treating it I am literally just going to cry nonstop." So, I treated it with Valtrex but it wasn't until a week later. I knew nothing about how to prevent it I just knew I had it for life, and to me, it felt like a scarlet letter and I am not someone who is overly sexual in the first place so I'm like, "Great now I'm single, I'm not very open to begin with, and now I have to disclose this? But I'm not even educated on it, what am I disclosing?" It was treated but after it cleared up I had constantly thought I was having an outbreak again, I would say for a good three or four months just because I wasn't educated, and to be frank, healthcare's not either. 

Courtney: Yeah. And you were given doxycycline which I believe is for gonorrhea if memory serves me. 

Laureen: They were trying to treat gonorrhea, syphilis, or chlamydia but I was negative for all of them. That was another thing, I was yelling at the doctor, I'm like, "I'm negative for all of these, what do I have?" And he's like, "If you--" [scoffs] stigmatizing--the doctor said, "If you have sex with someone that wasn't tested, what do you expect?" 

Courtney: WOW!

Laureen: Don't worry, the doctor is under the medical board now because I've reported him multiple times. 

Courtney: Yes! 

Laureen: Yeah, it was severe. I was screaming. I was like, "I don't care if I have 87 S T Ds and I've just left an orgy, you're a doctor, you treat me." 

Courtney: [gasps with laughter] 

Laureen: And the funny thing is my mom was with me, so my mom is just sitting there like, "What is going on? My daughter's losing her mind." She drove me because I couldn't drive, I was in so much pain, so she was the one that drove me and she just stayed with me and she doesn't know what was going on, I didn't either, but she just saw me screaming and being very sex-positive to the doctor. Not even knowing what was going on, so that I think added to it too, I was stigmatized before I was even diagnosed by some young male doctor. I couldn't see his face because of his mask, but I would have punched him in it if I could have [chuckles]. 

Courtney: [chuckles] When you were diagnosed, you mentioned that you had been single. I don't know if you were saying that you would have had herpes from your relationship or from dating after your relationship ended. 

Laureen: I mean since the person I was with after my relationship says they didn't have it could I have had it before? Sure. I'm thinking that the person after my relationship gave it to me. I mentioned my relationship because I was in a relationship, I was comfortable and I never had to think of these things. I know that if I had it then he would have accepted it. Knowing that I left somebody that was an accepting person, and all of a sudden I get herpes and now I'm off in the world clueless? I said that because it was such a flip. March of '21 I left him then May of '21 I got herpes. 

Courtney: So this is NEW new. This ain't, this ain't-- 

Laureen: “Welcome to single life, here's your herpes.” And I'm like, “Thank you [laughs].” Courtney: DAMN! OK-- 

Laureen: Yeah, this is "new" new, and I was in denial for, like, two months but once I accepted it I was like, "I'm going in headfirst." I'm not going to push this down, be embarrassed of it, be ashamed, not educate myself because that's not me. And I was acting very unlike me the first two months, pretending I didn't have it. I told one person, my cousin, who's a nurse, that's it. I told my sister the one day, I was crying to her, she thought I was dying. And she's like, "Oh, that's it? I don't really know what that is but I thought you were dead." So I really stigmatized it. I went full throttle the other way to kind of make up for what I was doing in the first place which wasn't good. I know Alexandra always talks about it, she calls it the "Eeyore Phase", for when you're first diagnosed you're just low. Until you accept that, a cloud is over you. 

Courtney: Yeah. When you--you're a trauma therapist. So, you're diagnosed, you know what you're dealing with psychologically, you said that you accepted it and then you started to go in headfirst. What was that acceptance process for you? 

Laureen: Hmmm...I would say when I started telling people, which now a lot of people in my life know and probably after the podcast everyone will know which is totally fine but the people that didn't know...like, my best friend I tell her everything. I told her at some point, I told my sisters. It was right after my second show when I was like, "OK, I need to deal with this." That was P T S D. I told my sister, she's like my best friend. I told my best friend and a couple other close friends. All my best friend said to me was, "I don't know--" --and she works in the medical field, she's anesthesia--but she's like, "I don't know much about it but I'm going to learn about it because we're going to get through this." And I remember that exact message and for some reason, that's when it clicked and I knew I was going to get through this. This isn't cancer. It was really when I had other people in my life accept it and say, "I don't know, I feel sad for you because it's hard for you but it doesn't change anything." It took for other people that I cared about to actually hit me, like because emotionally I was damaged completely. And I'll be honest, to this day, it's definitely not 100 percent. It's doing really well but it's still a journey, I've not completed it yet. 

Courtney: Yeah. And what you just spoke to is something that we touch on on Something Positive for Positive People fairly often, which is this identity validation. When you started to disclose and share with people around you they were able to validate Laureen, not Laureen who has herpes and is stigmatized and stigmatizing herself. 

Laureen: Yeah. And I remember I met someone who was in one of the groups I was in and I was just talking about disclosing and what that looks like and the person said, "Why do you even think about it? It's not even a part of you." And I remember [saying], "I don't agree with that", but I remember I'm also [inaudible] on the other side. I'm not Laureen with Herpes, I'm just Laureen who also has it. This person had said, "Don't even think about it, it's not even part of your identity." Which I didn't agree with but I was also making it my identity. There's a way to just be me that has it, through learning how other people would accept it is kind of how I found my place in accepting it if that makes sense. But you're right, with validation I did need people to--my love language is physical touch but words of affirmation is huge for me and I knew it would be important when my sister and my best friend accepted it but it meant the world because I just felt like I was living like I was Hannah Montana, I was living this secret life.

Courtney: I can relate to that! [laughs] Because that's kind of what I did when I first started to find community and support, that's where my awareness was, that's where my presence was. Even in physical proximity with people who have known me or that I've been through things with and had real-life connections with. I liked myself more in these digital spaces around complete strangers who only knew that I had herpes. Don't get me wrong, I've made some very good connections and friendships throughout that, but once those two things became prevalent in my life, of feeling that I like myself more around people who are strangers that just know I have herpes than people who I've known for a long time, I had to do something and that something sounds very similar to your process of going through the acceptance which was just telling other people. Telling people around you and giving them the opportunity to support you and validate your identity aside from association with herpes. 

Laureen: And I will say when I joined the one support group, the Life with Herpes, I met a--and shoutout to my friend Kat who I met on there, she messaged me and said, "Hey, here's my number if you want to text me." And that meant more than the people just saying, "Hi, nice to meet you" because I felt uncomfortable even though they were doing everything right. I wasn't ready yet but she reached out and I remember she video chatted me the next day and she ended up living not far from me and the one thing she said is, "My goal is one day we can talk about other things than herpes." But I talked to her like every day for probably two or three months and we still talk a lot now but I would connect more with her and I never met her. The first time I met her was when we went to the retreat. So it's funny, I had this connection but I did, it was starting to blend. It was more people that didn't know me from my real life that I wanted to talk to more and now it's starting to blend a lot better, kind of like the exact journey you're saying. And it is weird because I was on a family vacation and they made a joke about oral herpes and I'm thinking, "Oh my god, I've just started accepting that I have it a week ago, this is way too soon for a joke." They didn't know, they were just making fun of someone with a pimple on their face. So I called this girl that I barely know and we talked for an hour as I walked on the beach and I'm like, "That's so weird, my family who I'm super close with I'm hiding from to talk to someone that I've never met." Although in my head it makes total sense now, it was very weird to feel that in the moment because my family and I are attached at the hip. We're obsessed with each other but I didn't want to talk to them so it was very strange. 

Courtney: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that, I appreciate the openness about your experience with the community support group and then having that dialogue with a stranger, essentially, after having the feeling that you had with your family. So are we at a point now where your family does know? 

Laureen: My sister knows and some of my cousins know. I've told my mom but she doesn't understand what it means. I did tell her over the phone the one day, I just called her, I wasn't even home. I was like, "Hey, I have herpes." And she was like, "Oh! I don't really understand what that is but OK. It's fine." So she never asked, she still never asks, but I told her, so people know. And I told more close friends before I told family and I don't understand why but not all of my family knows but some of them do. And I'm at the point where I don't feel like I need to disclose to them. If they find out or if they hear this podcast or if they overhear someone talking to me, I don't care. And it's not in a mean way, I have so many other things in life that actually matter [other than] a virus that a majority of people have anyway. 

Courtney: Yeah. As a trauma therapist, has that been helpful to you navigating your diagnosis? 

Laureen: That's a good question. Yes in the long run, no initially. Initially--I know how the brain works, I know how the left side works versus the right side, how emotions are lodged, how trauma works and I was very logical in it so I kind of was beating myself up because of what my clients were doing [which] was getting through trauma, accepting things. I wasn't there yet. So at first, I was bullying myself, and then I talked to myself like I talk to clients. Our brain is like anyone else's. It's going to start to process that neural pathway when it feels like it, not when you pressure it to. Once I really moved past go then it helped. I was able to understand, I was able to empathize with clients when they feel lost or they feel confused or no one understands their trauma and no one understands why they avoid things or don't talk about things. It made me feel better and in hindsight, I think more than helping my own healing process I think it's going to help me as a therapist more because I went through it. I went through something very severe and I think it builds a lot of empathy, not that I didn't have it but when you go through experiences you really start to empathize. So I think it will help my work more as a therapist more than it helped my healing process if that makes sense. 

Courtney: It does, it does. I just want to repeat back a little bit of what I heard there, in that being that yes you know objectively what you're experiencing, how you need to navigate it but knowing that and trying to pressure it with the logical process doesn't make the process of feeling your emotions and processing the event speed up, if you will. It's something that you just have to go through. 

Laureen: Yep, correct. I mean a big thing I learned in trauma work and being certified in E M D R--or it's not certified it's trained. There are so many steps in E M D R and I don't want to say the incorrect step to somebody here because there are so many different layers to it.  The first part is "train" not certified just to clarify. But it's feeling the emotions. I always tell my clients [who say], "I feel sad and I never felt sad." Well, you have trauma so you blocked it, and now you feel it. But I was feeling sad and I was like, "I don't want to feel this, I'm a therapist, why can't I fix it?" Even though that's why I wasn't fixing it because I wasn't letting myself feel the emotion. So that part helped. Once I felt the emotions and actually was able to sit with them, that's when I was able to start healing it. Like I said I'm definitely not 100 percent healed but I'm leaps and bounds from what I was then.

Courtney: Mmm-kay. You're a bikini competitor, so obviously, that comes off as being someone who is somehow someway attractive, physically. I didn't hear you in the beginning of your diagnosis express any concerns about how to tell someone else. Your visceral response was, "I know that I need to heal from this, I need to work on me." So I want to know if there was anything that you feel that your attractiveness, or working as or being a bikini competitor, may have contributed to where it wasn't necessarily a seeking of external validation through partnership or relationship or dating or sex that you needed to get from yourself for yourself. 

Laureen: I think I'm understanding your question. I have a bunch of ways to probably answer it. So I have struggled a lot with dating since my diagnosis. I've been rejected a few times pretty severely. Well, pretty severely for someone who's diagnosed, I don't think the person in any of the situations really was that severe but for me it was. One of my closest friends is a male and he's a nurse and he drove me to some appointments and I've talked to him about it a lot. Actually, it's funny because, on my birthday which was recent, I turned 29. I'm having a midlife crisis too. Even if I'm seeing somebody and it's going very well I'm like, "What if it doesn't work out, and what if I have to tell people again?" He was a nurse, he was working nights, so at 2 a.m. I decided to call him [chuckles] when I'm overthinking because I was dealing with it and he said, "Laureen--" Like, we're definitely just platonic friends but he was like, "You are very smart, you're attractive, you're in great shape, you're a good person. I'm sure rejection is not something you've dealt with before." And I would say probably not, I don't want to be conceited because I've definitely had a heartbreak, I've definitely been cheated on, screwed over, the whole nine. But no, being rejected--it's usually not just straight up rejected. So realizing that I wanted validation from guys which I've never wanted before or wanting their acceptance of that was a weird concept to get around. When I broke up with my ex I wasn't trying to date immediately or anything, it's not my top priority ever in life so it was just weird because I just didn't know how to navigate that. To be honest, I don't even know how to date anyway, I'm from a very small town. I'd meet people at the gym and it kind of just--you go out to dinner then you're dating. So to actually go out and date...like right now I'm in DC. How the heck do you date? How do you meet people? There are so many people here, how do you meet them? In my hometown, you meet them, you know their cousin, their mom, you used to go to school with their one friend. It's just dating, in general, is new to me, and now dating with herpes was new to me. So the whole thing was scary. I know that I think I wanted people to--I wanted a guy to accept it first so I could. Not that I would do that but I know that's how I felt and I knew that that was wrong. But I did experience two rejections. One, I still talk to the person, we're actually still--I wouldn't say good friends but we still keep in contact. He's in the competing world and we've never talked about what happened since and I'm OK with that completely because I have learned that he is not my interest. And the second person I haven't talked to since I disclosed because they said they were OK with it and then said, "Actually, it freaks me out. I need to worry about myself. I've had health issues and I can't risk my health for you." 

Courtney: Damn. That hurts. I resonate with that second to last one, except it didn't go into that much detail, it was just them saying, "I don't want herpes." After having already had sex and talked about it and yeah, I know that that is probably one of the most challenging forms of rejection. 

Laureen: Three of his exes, he told me, had herpes, like, oral herpes and I was like, "Well, they're the same." And then I'm like, "When was the last time you've been tested? Like a blood test?" Then I went into let's educate and he said, "Oh I haven't gotten a blood test for an S T D in a decade." I'm like, "Bro, you've got herpes. I'm not trying to lie, but you've got herpes. You have herpes, I don't know what to say. You have H S V. One or two and both, I don't know where you have it but you've got it." And I tried to say that in a less, like, you know, because I can be kind of very snarky but it was interesting how--that response was very interesting but in hindsight, that disclosure went horrible in my view. I reached out to a good friend of mine to kind of just cry that I felt rejected by the person I liked, I liked the person so that was sucky and then the H S V part. And I just told my friend on the phone, I said, "I was rejected" blah, blah, blah, and then I mentioned I have H S V and I didn't realize I…actually ended up disclosing to the person that I'm actually kind of dating now. So it's a weird roundabout way that it worked out but I wouldn't say it happened for the best because I don't feel like we need to go through that to find somebody. Even though I'm grateful it occurred, I don't think it was necessary if that makes sense. Like, I didn't need to be crushed and feel like nothing to be open [in order] to share it with people. That was not what had to happen. 

Courtney: In relation to rejection, you're a bikini competitor, and you have been on stage...eh, I don't know how many times, how many times now? 

Laureen: Probably at least twelve. 

Courtney: All right, so-- 

Laureen: I've been competing since 2017. 

Courtney: All right. So have you always gotten first place? 

Laureen: No [laughs]. 

Courtney: That's where I was kind of going with this. How is that rejection of putting all this time, energy, effort into your diet, your body, your nutrition, your exercise. How is it that this kind of rejection stings so differently than the rejection of someone you share your herpes status with and them not being OK with moving forward? 

Laureen: Wow, these are really good questions [laughs]. No, they're good! They're not something I've thought about. Logically the way I could think of it--emotionally I'm kind of trying to grapple with what that is--but logically...OK, someone could show up to stage with a better body, someone could be competing longer than I have, someone could know the judges, someone--so there are ways that I can only control myself in that moment. And I can rationalize it and...well, I get upset about losses, especially at smaller shows. I'm like, "Psssh, I deserved the overall." I can look at a picture and be like, "Oh, I feel like I was better", but it doesn't impact my self-worth. It was the judges saying just objectively this person's body or posing or whatever was more on point. It doesn't take away from me. The herpes takes away from me. In the way that my brain views it. I see it moving around there because all of it, I know all of this is wrong in what I'm saying. I'm just saying the way my brain digests it because the way you asked the question I want to answer and say, "Well, they're not, they're the same, you're so right." And I do agree with you but that's not how I feel [laughs]. 

Courtney: No, thank you! Because what my intention with that question was is to show that no one's immune to the emotions. Like, I'm open about my herpes status and I just highlighted the experience that I had with someone who knew that I had herpes, who acknowledged before we had sex that I had herpes and then we had sex, and then after the fact they weren't OK with it. So for me I've set up this, or I have, I'm not going to say I intentionally did this, but I have this entire organization, social media presence, podcast that filters out people who aren't OK with me having herpes and I'm very, very quick to disclose that this is my work, this is what I do and I have herpes and even people slipping through the cracks in that sense are still capable of bringing about that intensity of the feelings that come along with rejection. I mean I have my own process to have to navigate that. And you're a trauma therapist, right? And so you are able to say, "This is the process, this is what's going on, but you still have your feelings." And that's where I was going with that, I didn't mean to like put you on the spot or anything or put you on blast. 

Laureen: No, no, no, that's totally fine! Because it's right, because sometimes logically we're like, "Why does that bother me? Because that doesn't make sense if I'm doing this." So it shows you, it shows in my trauma work how both sides of the brain, they don't talk. We can feel one way and we can understand the logic but then our emotions are like, "But screw that, I'm still hurt." So that's kind of how I was answering that. But no, I appreciate the challenge. Sometimes I feel like I know it all because I'm a therapist and I know I don't but I think I tell myself I do because I want to be done with my herpes process but I know I'm not. So I hope this helps people too and educates them but also I will be honest it also is helping me. It really is.

Courtney: Aww! Thank you. I want to go back to the gym thing. There are ways that I want to ask these questions and it'll shift as needed. With 2022 being what it is, people are wearing masks, covering their face. You said you're used to meeting people at the gym and you'll start dating-- 

Laureen: Well yeah, in my hometown I am but I've been in DC so...I usually live in Pennsylvania so I'm not really in my hometown anymore. Now I don't meet people at the gym because now it's not small town, you meet everyone. So I just wanted to let you know, I do go to gyms now where it's all masks and I don't know anybody. 

Courtney: Ahhh, OK, OK, because, well, shit, that kind of shatters the question now [laughs] 

Laureen: Well there you go [laughs]. 

Courtney: What's your process for disclosing, and sharing your status with someone that you're interested in? When do you decide to initiate that conversation or has the conversation ever been initiated with you? 

Laureen: No one's ever had the conversation with me, ever. So that's why I felt like nobody had herpes! Because either people don't know, it's not talked about. My process, well obviously the person I'm dating now they were a friend and they knew and they were so--I remember when I was rejected by the person and I called him to explain and he was texting me later that night saying like, "Someone that doesn't accept you for you and judges you from something that's so common is ridiculous." And I'm like, "Um, excuse me, I mentioned I had herpes but we don't bring it up again! [laughs]" His openness to it was almost shocking to me that I was like, "Hey, still buddy, but I don't even accept it myself." So that process was different but mostly what I was doing and I still--even though it didn't work out for two people, I think it was for the best--is I say it earlier than later. And I don't think everyone needs to know my--as someone said, "No one needs to know your story", and I was like, "They don't, but this isn't my story, this is if you're not on board with this then you don't deserve my story." My story's not herpes. My story, I've got a long story. If you can't get past something small then you don't need to know more about me. And some people view it as I'm too open and to those people, they obviously are not someone that I'm going to click with. I always do it earlier, not like day one but if I'm talking, or hanging out with someone I let them know ahead of time because I'd rather know how they feel than continue to open myself up, be vulnerable, and get to know them. 

Courtney: Damn, that was good! If you--wait. This isn't your story and you disclose this early so that if they're not accepting of or OK with this then they don't deserve your story. I want to really emphasize that and drive that home here because that is something that shows sort of a disconnect from herpes in, like, it as what it is. It's not you. Herpes is a virus and when you share that with someone it's like, "All right, hey, here's a little bit of understanding that this might be something that we end up having to address and it will affect our relationship to some extent. How are you with that? Oh, OK, you're OK with that? Come on in! I'll let you know about all the fucking chaos that's going on [chuckles] inside of my world." 

Laureen: I'm like, "If you can't handle H S V then you can't handle the shit show that is Laureen behind closed doors [laughs]." And I'm joking but I'm being serious, there's so much. And one thing that it made me think of is at the herpes retreat I went to in the summer, Alexander's husband spoke, I will never forget what he said because I brought up that I disclosed to someone that I didn't think was OK with it, he had to think about it. And all her husband said was, "What's his FICO score? I'm sure he had stuff he doesn't like either." And I'm like, "Yo! Yeah, what is your FICO score, man? Come on! Can we even buy a house one day? Or are you mad at the dormant virus inside of me?" [laughs] 

Courtney: [chuckles] Is herpes your most difficult thing that a partner has to deal with with you? Is that why that's what comes out first and then you let them in on everything else or is that like a gateway into the more intense stuff? 

Laureen: I think herpes is more of a make or break for other people. And it's not something I want to deal with if someone's like, "Ehh, I don't know if I can accept that." Which again, I'm like making fun of those people but I'm not. Everyone has the right to choose. Who's to say that I wouldn't feel that way if I never got diagnosed? It's not the most important thing but it's kind of like if someone doesn't ever want to get married. It's just something I don't think is worth getting across so I like to get that out of the way. Now, with me, I think I have more, despite being a therapist I think I'm very closed off at times in relationships. I think that is more like I feel unsafe in situations. I think that is more to the stuff I've dealt with. I'm not like safety-wise, really, just...I guess I might have lacked positive reinforcement as a kid. Nothing too crazy, my parents are fine people, it's just I think I need to feel secure, I think that is more of an issue in a relationship than me having herpes. I just think I want to know ahead--like, you know, the way I function and the way I need to be validated, that can be worked through. We can't work through my herpes, that shit's with me for life. So that's the way I view it. It's not the hardest, I just think it's something that I won't compromise on if someone's like, "Ehh, I'll wait and see." Like, "No you won't. You won't wait and see. Go get tested, you probably have it." 

Courtney: You speak very well to this. I've made the mistake of--and I'm acknowledging this now--of I had someone who's actually a sex therapist go through therapy with one of the therapists that I work with in supporting people who are struggling with herpes stigma. And after having spoken to you, at this point, I'm having a realization that that person's discomfort with wanting to work with other people who have herpes or be able to have this same conversation and speak to how therapy was helpful and supportive to them, it speaks to...no matter how much understanding you have objectively about the situation, again, you still need to feel the feelings and have your process because I couldn't understand how you're a sex therapist, you've been through therapy, why can't we have this conversation over the podcast and speak to that experience? And I felt a little bit upset by it because that is like the only thing that I have as far as fundraising tools to show people, "Hey, this is what your money, your donations, funding has the power to do." And her testimony one-on-one to me was amazing and I was upset that I couldn't get that but now having spoken to you and learned and understood that people have to have their healing process. I get it now, so thank you. 

Laureen: Oh, well I was happy to help! 

Courtney: Now, I feel like--I don't know where to take this now because you've so well articulated everything. Like, how's that podcast? Did you start that podcast yet? 

Laureen: No, but I will say, so I'm a trauma therapist, I do E M D R and I think it's the only way to really treat trauma. I think--not I think--I know recidivism rates in E M D R versus Prozac, any SSRI, or any other complex trauma therapy, it's the lowest. But it's draining. I will say I love what I do, I know it's going to have an expiration date with the way I'm doing it now. I overwork myself but I love it. I think I could do...I'm pretty well versed in talking, I obviously talk for a living and I want to educate people. My practice is called Seasons of Strength so my podcast is going to be called, whenever it comes to fruition, Seasons of Rambling [laughs]. Because that's probably what's going to happen. It's mostly going to be me educating but I probably will have guests on. It's going to be fun stuff but a lot of it, the basis is going to be education. Besides the name, I haven't done anything but I really think podcasts are what...like I told you when we first talked on the phone I feel like I already know you because I've listened to your voice a billion times. And then I listen to the other podcasts and then you're a guest on there and I was like, "Well, we're already friends!" So it was just funny, so I think podcasts are such a way to go. I listen to them when I work out, when I'm going for a walk, in the mornings. So I think that's a good way to educate people…in all different realms because people are misunderstood in trauma. I also think my new understanding of sexual health and the way it's stigmatized, not that I would do anything in your realm because I wouldn't, but I think we stigmatize things we don't even realize. And I think I learned, obviously, H S V the hard way but there are so many things we stigmatize that I think that I could just be educating in a discussion. Because I also think that the trauma work I do should be more common. I don't like that I'm a specialty. It's cool because people come to me because I'm a specialty but I don't think what I'm doing is that impressive. I think everyone should function with therapy to heal at the neural pathways so I wish it was more common. I would really like to educate with that and help people understand that the biggest thing is: How does trauma occur if you're just watching it happen? I could watch a car accident happen and be traumatized by it. It's just the way our brain wires and fires it together. But I think that would lower us, saying we're pansies and babies in this society and we're all soft, I think if people understood trauma those words wouldn't be as common because we just don't understand them. So that's kind of what I want to do with my podcast but you told me the app to download, I downloaded that, I've got a name and then I was like, "Whew! I'm done." [laughs] And I was like, "Well when I touch base with him I'll ask him then for input." But I think [podcasts are a] really cool way...[to] do it. Like, I would put on your podcast when I would shower and I would just listen to them and cry about my life and stuff and it really was a healing process because you can live your life as you're listening to podcasts and I think that that's the way to go in what I want to do. On top of that I would never stop doing the trauma work. The magnitude I'm doing it at now I can't do it forever. Maybe another year or so, but it's going to hit an end date where I'm going to have to be doing something also on the side and reduce the amount of sessions per week because it's draining. 

Courtney: Thank you for the compliments. I'm glad that you're taking the steps forward. Thanks for selling podcasts the way that you just did too [chuckles]. 

Laureen: [laughs] 

Courtney: Sexual health is mental health. What is your response to that statement? Laureen: It is! 100 percent. 

Courtney: All right-- 

Laureen: I really think-- 

Courtney: I was about to say, "Damn! That's it?" [laughs] 

Laureen: No! It's--yeah, that's my--well, I feel like I'm super long-winded so I'm like, "Yes. Fact." No, I wouldn't have thought that a while ago, and not just sexual health in the terms of S T Ds. I know that's what we're talking about but just in general having a positive sex life, and having an understanding of your body is mental health because like for example, I grew up Catholic. My mom, to this day, even though I'm 29, if I say "sex" to her she's like [gasps sharply] as if I'm 10. So I just think we need to normalize sex in general. I had somebody tell me recently that their relationship was an open relationship and I was like, "Oh, cool!" And I feel like a year ago, prior to me educating myself and learning, I'd be like, "Oh, that's weird. Why would they be OK with that?" I just think in general it shouldn't be taboo. Like, what do they say, politics and religion you shouldn't talk about? I think sexual health is something we should talk about, I really do in terms of...relationships. And a big thing I see in my work is intimacy. I see couples that...great relationship, they haven't had sex in years and they don't know why because sexual health is, we brush it over like it's nothing but it messes with your happiness long-term. Probably a decent amount of my couples is intimacy issues and I think it's a lack of sexual health and education that's out there. 

Courtney: What guidance--or tips--do you have for someone who feels like they should be over this by now because they know better, because of education, because of their upbringing. What would you say to someone who is maybe in your shoes of having an overall understanding of how herpes stigma is and they've got access to the education but for some reason they just can't accept this, they can't move through this. Do you have any guidance for them? 

Laureen: Go to E M D R therapy [chuckles]. I've been promoting my stuff. No, I joke but I'm being serious. So I do E M D R and I just got off earlier today with a client who did about 10 years of talk therapy. I don't downgrade talk therapy whatsoever. A decent portion of what I do is talk therapy. But talk therapy only hits one side of the brain. Unless you can hit the emotional side, the deep insecurities that we hold and we don't know why it's really hard to heal it. I think educating, talking to people, and researching is good but if you still can't come to terms with it I think there needs to be someone that's versed in the trauma end of it and I think E M D R is the best way to go. I mean it's not the end all be all. Even understanding--there's this book, I don't know if you've ever heard of it, it's called The Body Keeps the Score? 

Courtney: Yeah, Vessel ben--oh, I butchered the name, but yes. That person [chuckles]. 

Laureen: I was--that guy! [chuckles] I was introduced to that book way before I was introduced to E M D R. When I was introduced to E M D R I was like, "Oh. Yeah. I'm getting trained in that. That's exactly what happens." I think the understanding of our experiences really does impact us. Our bodies and brains don't forget our experiences. That education is more important I think than anything. I would obviously suggest doing a trauma-based therapy but honestly understanding our life experiences, like there's a reason why if our dads didn't hug us enough that we crave physical affection, like just understanding those things might help us understand why we can't accept a virus. Understanding the way the brain digests information. 

Courtney: Yeah. Thank you. You mentioned sort of vaguely, and maybe I'm paraphrasing or projecting, that you got something out of this podcast, out of whether listening to it or being a part of it and sharing your experience and I'd like to know what that is or was. 

Laureen: I think I said from the first time we spoke, I think it will help others but I also selfishly knew that it would help me, kind of sharing my story. You had said before we started, "Can I use your name?" And I said, "Yeah I have no issue with that." Because I want to be open about it and I don't feel the need to broadcast it unless it ever comes up...but I don't care. I think I've never talked about it in depth to more than the person that I'm seeing and it was a huge trauma part of my life and I think it's helpful to kind of own it and then see your growth from it and know actually talking about it is helpful. I remember the guy was like, "Well what do you think...do you mind if they use your name? Will people find out?" And I just was like, "I really don't care." So the fact that I was able to say that to myself, I was like, "Yeah, I told him I don't really care if he uses my name or whatever." He's like, "Are you sure?" I'm like, "I'm just going to go off my gut reaction, I don't care." So I know that that was growth but I know I haven't gone [far] enough to go on a podcast or anything so it was very helpful. Also, the questions you ask and tying in my bodybuilding stuff which I have not tied in is all an interesting thing that it's probably going to have my wheels turning for a while and I'll be texting you later on [laughing] about it because I've never heard some of those perspectives, which is really good because I'm stuck in my little egocentric world. So it was cool to have the questions you asked because yeah, I'm trained in trauma and I have herpes but I've never looked at it [in the way that] some of the questions you asked [prompted]. That was really awesome, so I really appreciate that. 

Courtney: Oh yes, keep stroking my ego! No, I'm just kidding [laughs]. Laureen: "Keep going, keep going", what else can I do? [laughs] 

Courtney: All right. How can people find you if they want to connect with you? 

Laureen: I guess my Instagram? So it's underscore underscore L A U R E E E N [@__laureeen]. 

Courtney: Oh, Ok, so two underscores, three E's, Laureen. 

Laureen: Yes. 

Courtney: Got it. 

Laureen: There's only two E's in my name but I had to put three. I was just going to keep typing E's until they accepted it because then no one will screw it up by saying Lauren because it'll have 87 E's and they're like, "OK, it's definitely not Lauren." [chuckles] 

Courtney: Be like, "Yeah, it's Laurennnnn." [chuckles] 

Laureen: [laughs] 

Courtney: All right. Thank you so much, I appreciate you being here sharing your experience and I just admire your advocacy, allyship, and willingness to--especially so soon after your diagnosis--being willing to come here and talk in-depth, in detail as you have and answering some of my hard questions, so thank you so much.

Laureen: Yeah, thank you so much, it was a pleasure to be on. 

Courtney: All right! That concludes this episode of Something Positive for Positive People. Please like, rate, review, share, subscribe to this podcast. Notice that I switched "subscribe to" and "share". Normally I say "subscribe" and then "share" but I decided to mix it up on ya. You can visit W W W dot S P F P P dot org [www.spfpp.org] today if you want to donate or learn more about Something Positive or if you want to connect with me for any media opportunities, funding, grants, funding, grants. I'll say that twice because I am struggling. All these grant applications I'm filling out and not hearing back for months at a time only to be told, "Yeah, we're sorry but there were proposals that were better than yours." I'm like, "All right, man. Well, fuck it." So these things are helping me deal with rejection. How are you dealing with rejection? Are you someone who is obsessively consuming information around herpes or are you disclosing to people in hopes that they just kind of [chuckles] go away, which is actually a thing, it's kind of funny but you know we have to look at some of these behaviors and we've got to look at where these are stemming from so that we can go through our own process of healing and being able to work through things. I advocate for people finding community, being able to identify your local and close friends and support systems that are already within your circle as you go through and you find these people and get these things from them, with them, then you're able to accelerate your own healing process. And just remember no one's immune to the process of the healing that has to occur as you navigate your herpes diagnosis, as we go through and experience symptoms of stigma if you will. So just continue to keep trucking along and whenever it is that you feel like you might be stuck and you need something and you don't know what it is, please don't hesitate to reach out. Til next time, stay sex-positive.